Vanity Publishers. BEWARE.
What does it mean?
Well, in the wiki, it says, "A vanity press, vanity publisher, or subsidy publisher is a publishing house in which authors pay to have their books published."
What does it mean to me?
A publisher that exploits the fundamental flaw in the nature of amateur author to be the next, 'Dan Brown or 'JK Rowling and extract money.
So all started on 23rd May 2017 when I submitted 'Finding an Indian Bride' book for the first time to submissions@pegasuspublishers.com.
I got a warm reply from Laura Bayne saying, 'I've put your sample chapters forward for our initial review process, which takes approximately 2-3 weeks, after which time we will again be in touch.'
After almost 11 days, I got the below mail.
13th June 2017: I got a reply from Laura Bayne saying,'
I am writing to thank you for your recent submission of work and for your patience in awaiting our response. We would like to invite you to submit your full manuscript for further consideration for our new lists.' (Of course, this is just a snapshot. The original message is longer.)
I was very excited. It was one of the first 'yes' I have got from a publishing company. I didn't know what Vanity publishing was at that time. I provided them the full manuscript and was waiting for a positive response.
16th August 2017: I got a reply.
We are sorry to inform you that the Publishing Board has decided that the above work is not something that it feels able to take on at the moment.
We would like to thank you for taking the time to submit your work to us, and we sincerely wish you every success in placing your manuscript elsewhere.
Wait...Before you judge me and say, "It's sour grapes, then just wait—story abhi baki hai dost(This is just the beginning my friend).
I took it with a pinch of salt and started to rectify the manuscript by approaching to proofreaders and beta readers.
Then two years later.
06th April 2019
I re-submitted the same work, and Elaine Wadsworth replied on 08th April 2019, "I am writing to thank you for your recent submission of work and for your patience in awaiting our response. We would like to invite you to submit your full manuscript for further consideration for our new lists."
Phew, it was quick. Just two days for the full manuscript, they must be dying to read the whole story.
09th April 2019
I again provided them the full manuscript.
Elaine Wadsworth replied,
Thank you for your email and for sending the entire manuscript.
We have put your manuscript forward for our initial review. Please allow up to 8 weeks for the submission review process to be completed. If the editor considers the work to be appropriate for our lists, we will put forward an offer of publication, either under a traditional contract or a shared cost inclusive contract.'
Fingers crossed
I got a mail from Suzanne Mulvey on 25th June 2019. I am sure most of the authors who have contacted Pegasus knows her.
And it stated below:
Dear Vinay, Thank you for your patience during the submission process.
We enjoyed FINDING AN INDIAN BRIDE and would very much like to publish your work. We are, however, at the present time, unable to offer you a traditional contract. If you are interested in receiving information on one of our inclusive contracts where the cost of production is partly shared with the author, please let me know, and I can send you the details. I have attached our publishing guide for further information.
I was at the top of the mountain. I really was. I just felt this is it. This was the time I was waiting for. After a while, when the adrenal calmed down, and my brain returned to present, my mind interpreted the line, 'inclusive contracts where the cost of production is partly shared with the author' more clearly. But I was still hopeful. Why can't I bare the cost partially? I can at least do that.
I asked for the cost, and I got a detailed contract on 01st July 2019, and she asked me to sign digitally and revert back. The agreement was well written, and I didn't want to paste the entire content here, but just the once that mattered to me the most.
--------skip below its only the contract- if you don't feel like. I would summarize later. -----
15 ADVANCES
It is agreed that the author shall, in consideration of the undertakings, services, and expenditures made on the part of the Publisher, in accordance with the terms of this agreement contained herein, pay to
the Publisher the sum of £2400 GBP for the publication of the work. If the Publisher should fail to publish the work as specified in clause 5 supra, the author shall be entitled to a full and complete
reimbursement of this payment within thirty (30) working days of the said failure.
16 ROYALTIES
The Publisher for his part agrees to pay, to the author, royalties as follows: Subject to the terms and conditions set out in this agreement, the Publisher shall pay to the author the following payments in
respect of the work sold:
Home & Export Sales: a royalty of TWENTY FIVE PERCENT (25 %) of the net sales price.
E Book Sales: a royalty of FIFTY PER ENT (50%) of the net sales price.
Audiobook Sales: a royalty of FIFTY PERCENT (50%) of the net sales price.
17 SUBSIDIARY RIGHTS
Upon the Publisher arranging subsidiary rights in respect of the said work, he shall pay to the author
the following percentages of the gross amount he receives.
Quotation rights fifty percent 50%
Anthology rights fifty percent 50%
Translation rights fifty percent 50%
English language reprint rights fifty percent 50%
Mechanical reproduction fifty percent 50%
Electronic & software rights fifty percent 50%
Sound broadcast rights fifty percent 50%
Television reading rights fifty percent 50%
Dramatisation rights fifty percent 50%
Film rights fifty percent 50%
Documentary rights fifty percent 50%
Performance rights fifty percent 50%
Non-commercial rights for visually handicapped nil percent 0%
-----------------------------------END------------------------------------
In summary, I would pay GBP 2400 for the book to be proofread and for marketing, which did not feel that bad. I mean, for e-books or print format, I can just self publish very quickly through Amazon. Still, I felt probably this is not as bad as it looks. I mean, I would get fewer returns as royalties from the sales as compared to Amazon (70 percent from e-books if it is priced at 2.99 dollars or more), and Amazon cannot claim on any other rights like Television reading rights so on. But still, I felt, probably, they would have more reach.
On 02nd July 2019, I had lots of queries, so I asked a flurry of questions(I am addressing the questions which feel more relevant):
----------------------I would give a summary if you want to skip this you can--------------
The replies from Suzanne Mulvey are in red color.
- I have self-published this book on Amazon and would like to continue the self-publication of eBooks in Amazon.
I can remove the e-book from the contract so you can continue to publish your own e-book.
- The contract does not say anywhere that Publisher has to provide Development and Editorial services to the author for the payments.
The work is proofread, and you are sent a report. Any corrections or content suggestions will be put forward for your approval. Once you have agreed to any of the changes, we will then amend the manuscript and again send you another copy, this time with amendments in place. We will ask for your approval, and you may make any changes. We will then again implement any changes requested. We then ask you to sign a proof certificate that confirms that you agree to the changes made and that the work is ready for print. As you can see, we do not do anything without the author's approval.
- Let's say because of editorial changes, some of the parts are removed, and I feel there is a story that would fit perfectly in that place. Would I be charged to improve the story as well.
No, not unless it was a very large addition say another 20,000 words, at the discretion of the production department. Please see my above comment.
- Can you please illustrate like if a paperback sells for 10 dollars, then what percentage of it would I receive for all three formats(Hard copy/paperback/audio).
The price that we sell it out for varies enormously. The discount that an independent book shop may get could be 20%, whereas Amazon would be 60%. So, if the book is £8.99 and we give 20% discount to a book store, we get £7.19 and the author's royalties are 25% of that, i.e., £1.79
- 24 Payments of accounts. Is there any portal where I can check the sales? How would I know how much books or audiobooks have been sold?
Royalty statements are sent to you twice yearly. This has a breakdown of the sales from different sources such as individual sales, Amazon, book stores, wholesalers, etc.
-------------------------------------------------End of mail trail------------------------------------------------------------
In short, what I understood was they would be ripping my arm off for the editorial and marketing services. You see how she uses the example of a book shop for discounts and leave out amazon. If it is 20% discount, then I get £1.79(2.17 dollars) when the price of the books is £8.99(10.91 dollars), And if it was Amazon and if the book is £8.99(10.91 dollars)and they give 60% discount, then they get £3.596, and the author's royalties are 25% of that, i.e., £0.899(close to 1 dollar).
My logical brain still said That they would help me sell more so, I would get back the amount and much more than what I invest.
"You must be thinking it is not that bad. Or not. But anyway, I was too excited, but I could feel the safety alarm ringing in my head. So, I thought of asking more questions:
--------------------------------------------Actual Mail conversation---------------------------
I asked,
As you had mentioned, that author would be paying partly, can you disclose the actual amount that would be spent on the book editing and marketing along with the break-up?
Also, it was mentioned publishers 'shall' publish audiobooks. Does it mean that Publisher might not publish audiobooks? Just curious as audiobook sales are growing in size.
She replied,
Again, as every book and author is unique, the exact expenditure to produce the book would not be a confirmed amount. Obviously, areas such as printing, distribution, warehouse, marketing, etc. is an ongoing expense which is down to the Publisher alone.
With audiobooks, they are offered for an audition, so it depends if they are taken up and also that we accept the quality of the audition. We are constantly growing our audio market, as this is certainly an area of great potential sales.
---------------------------------------------END of mail conversation---------------------
Now, I wanted her to define partly. I mean, I didn't want her to come and say at the end of it that, "You paid 2400 Euro in parts and we paid 100 Euro. I didn't say your part would be less than mine and by what proportion. And to my benefit, if you read the words in the contract it never says that Publisher would pay anything it just says, 'It is agreed that the Author shall, in consideration of the undertakings, services, and expenditures made on the part of the Publisher, in accordance with the terms of this Agreement contained herein, pay to the Publisher the sum of £2400 GBP for the publication of the Work'.
Her reply did not calm me, and I realize she just dodge the bullet, and I was in no mood to let her do that.
----------------------------------------------------I asked on mail --------------------------------------
Thanks for the reply, and I understand that it is difficult to provide an exact figure as it is subjective, but can you provide me a ballpark figure that is spent on a book.
Suzanne replied
The ratio that an author contributes and the Publisher contributes is around 60-40, the author being 40.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I got a figure, and I was happy, but all this conversation took place on 02nd July 2019, and it got me thinking. It was as if she wanted to close that contract on that day itself. And it got me thinking. I thought of researching on it a little more, so I did not sign it.
On 03rd July 2019, I wrote 'Pegasus publishers asking money' on google, and I landed on this page
And I realized that I am not the only one stuck in a dilemma. Many authors got lured to the idea of making a movie and press releases.
Where the author says the same things as I experienced. The first book is rejected, and the second time it gets accepted. While there are mixed reviews but you dig deep all say the same things like, "They do manuscript editing and a press release after that you are on your own. They have already earned from you by making the payment in advance, and they probably spend some portion of it in editing services, and that's it.
So, I thought, why not safeguard myself and ask them to put this in the contract. I mean if she can write this on mail that it would be 60(Publisher £3600)-40(author £2400) percent, then she could even put that a total of 6000 would be spent, in the contract and where it would be spent like(marketing/editorial services etc.).
---------------------------------------------------I wrote a mail------------------------------------------------
Dear Suzanne,
Thanks for your time.
I just wanted to know about the budgeting for marketing/editing/packaging and so forth.
I am sorry, but I want to know where and how the money would be utilized.
Like which magazines, news press, the news release where this would be marketed, and how much budget would be assigned to it. It's just so that I would know how the money (2400 GBP my money + 3600 GBP of the Publisher) is being utilized.
Thanks for understanding
Vinay Kallat
Suzanne replied,
Dear Vinay,
Sorry, but I do not have that information for you.
Kind regards,
Suzanne
------------------------------------------------------
I know she might not be able to provide complete or accurate information. Still, if she is taking 2400 GBP and she says it is forty percent, then she must have come to that conclusion only after accessing my full manuscript and how much it would cost to get it in a publishing state and for marketing.
Generally, If you check sites like Feverr where there are professional editors, they do mention the rates based on word count, and here the Publisher has gone through the entire manuscript, she could easily let me know what the costs and the marketing strategies would be.
The above statement boiled me, and I wrote back.
----------------------------All this are real mail conversation-----------------------------
Hi Suzanne,
Thanks for being so patient and answering to all my questions, but I would ask one last question, please do answer.
It's a scenario, let's say, I am tv salesman, and I come to you and say, "Ma'am, I liked your personality and would like to offer you tv at a discounted rate. In fact, I would pay 60 percent, and all you have to do is pay 2400 GBP."
You would probably reply, "So, you would be paying 4600 GBP."
I do not reply to that.
Then you ask, "What all features does it have? Is it smart tv? Is the screen type OLED?"
I reply, "Sorry, but I do not have that information for you."
You ask, "What? So I would be paying 2400 GBP for a tv whose features I don't know?"
I reply, "Sorry, I forgot to mention you can use the tv only 25 percent of the time."
You ask, "What about the rest?"
I reply, "I keep it."
(After a brief moment)
I ask, "Are you willing to buy this tv?"
What would be your answer?
I know it's not one to one relationship, as I am not a customer but an author. But if you give it a deep thought, it seems like I am indeed your customer and not an Author.
Thanks,
Vinay Kallat
No reply from Suzanne.
-----------------------------------Conclusion--------------------------------------
Authors and my dear friends. I believe we authors are not as close nit as some of the other professions are. I think we see each other as competitors, but I don't think so. If we share our experience and safeguard each other, then such vanity publishers would disappear.
I know some of you would be saying they even publish the traditional way. But I would want to know the numbers from them and why hide the costs that they are going to spend on the project. There is something fishy or not right. See, I have not paid them a penny, so it is not sour grapes. I did a lot of research on this. I even went and checked the glass door reviews. And I was sure there is no smoke without fire. I just wanted to know where the fire was coming from. I have done quite a bit of research and read till the end if you want to see all the sides. There is also an author's story, who published with Pegasus, so read till the end.
-----------------------------------------(You can skip this and go to the author who has actually published with Pegasus in such a contract and know his experience with it. I even have provided his email Id. You can contact him directly if you want.)Glassdoor review -esp read the Italic parts and decide for yourself----------------------------------------------
Glassdoor Reviews
Former Employee - Anonymous Employee
Doesn't Recommend
Negative Outlook
I worked at Pegasus Elliot Mackenzie Publishers full-time
Pros
The only real pro of working at Pegasus was the solidarity of my employees as we laughed grimly about our shared descent into a cold, black abyss. Also, the hours were pretty good.
Cons
There were a handful of things that I didn't enjoy about working at Pegasus, but I'd say the main one was waking up every morning, remembering what I do for a living, and wishing I was dead. Go straight past Limbo, Lust and Heresy, and take a left off the A142. There, deep in the heart of the grim, bare fens, you'd in a converted garage opposite some stables, which was home to the eighth circle of Hell -- Pegasus Elliot. Pegasus asks its employees to flatter and praise writers who submit, telling them their books are excellent. Once their hopes and expectations are built up sufficiently, the employees have to ask them cough up substantial amounts of money to publish it. For the record, there's nothing explicitly wrong with vanity publishing. Stephen King said so himself. But like a repressed homosexual who expresses his frustration by beating up and insulting gay people, Pegasus is very much in denial. It repeatedly refutes the term "self-publishing", using clumsy phrases like "author contribution". And while Pegasus's founders are busy browsing YouTube all day, it is up to the poor, criminally underpaid staff who have stumbled into web of lies, to peddle this line of horse manure. The lowest point in my life was probably witnessing a dying child being sold these lies as she lay on her deathbed. But it gets worse: when the company realised how exposed they were by these lies, they cancelled her contract, leaving her to drift off into eternal nothingness without even a cheaply-made book to leave behind for future generations. The people who do wind up seeing their books to publication, and there are a great many, invariably hit the same tragic reality when, six months down the line they've sold two copies of their book -- and those people are (1) themselves, and (2) their mother. No doubt, it's the staff who face the brunt of their ire. If you go on Pegasus's website, or talk with them on the phone, they seem kind and professional. But beneath the surface, it's home to those who have been damned to Hell, filled with the same kind of thieves, flatterers, forgers and sorcerers as is described in Dante's Inferno.
Advice to Management
Pay your staff more money and stop forcing them to be complicit in what is, if not criminal action, then at the very least morally reprehensible. Just call yourself a "vanity publisher" and you'll still get almost as many people dying to publish with you (no pun intended). That way, you'll have the added benefit of not having cripplingly depressed staff who continuously quit as soon as literally any other opening comes available.
Former Employee - Anonymous Employee
Doesn't Recommend
I worked at Pegasus Elliot Mackenzie Publishers full-time for more than 3 years
Pros
They take on people with relatively limited work experience, as I was when I joined.
Cons
There is no such thing as lunch breaks. Sometimes I had to buy my own toilet paper because there was none and nobody in management had done anything about it. The management was often extremely unprofessional and treated employees like children. Public humiliation was a common experience, and often it was done for no reason. I was made to feel like nothing was ever enough. The workings of the business are very disorganised. Databases didn't work very well. People in charge of things like maintaining and/or improving the website couldn't be bothered to carry out their responsibilities. The business model is based on fraud, so it was an uncomfortable place to work. Telephone and email conversations with authors could be very trying for this reason. There was very little support from management when bad things happened. The pay is absolutely atrocious. With my current employer, I do a similar job to what I was doing here and my salary is £10,700 more than it was when I left Pegasus, and I still earn less than the average UK salary. You do the math...
Show More
Advice to Management
Treat people more fairly
Now the people defending -Both sides of a coin
Current Employee - Anonymous Employee
I have been working at Pegasus Elliot Mackenzie Publishers full-time
Pros
I was honestly really surprised to read the other reviews left here as I haven't seen anything of the sort during my employment with Pegasus; not sure if they had a major change for over the past couple of years but for me it's a very pleasant place to work. Compared to where I've worked previously, calling this the 'eight circle of Hell' is laughable - Pegasus accepts people with limited work experience. It's a great way to get your foot in the door for a publishing career - The hours are good, classic 9-5 and 10-4 on Fridays. - I think there's a really good home-work balance, I don't take my work home with me nor do I feel pressured to. - I've never wanted for anything here; anything I've asked for to help me do my job (chair support, stationary, computer stand etc) I've gotten really quickly. - They provide free pizza and snacks pretty regularly. - It's a small team and, in my experience, everyone gets on really well. Good sense of humour and will really do their best to help you out. - It's a really relaxed atmosphere. Never felt pressured or been 'publicly humiliated' during my time here - Since my being here I feel that the company has really worked to become a lot more transparent. When I first started I was really unsure about the whole concept of 'hybrid publishing' but with the measures they've put in place I don't feel like there's anything 'morally reprehensible' about it. Authors are told that they may be offered 2 types of contracts at multiple stages and they're never pressured to accept any terms they're not happy with. I think it gives authors who may never otherwise be published/can't access an agent/have tried and failed at self-publishing a good chance to get their foot on the ladder with their work. I communicate honestly with authors both in email and over the phone about what the contracts entail, and if it's not for them then it's honestly fine. If anything I've come to realise how many authors have very unrealistic expectations about publishing, no matter how often you explain the reality to them. I'd honestly prefer if more authors contacted us to ask about the particulars of a contract they've been offered , because that's what I'd do if roles were reversed. - From what I've seen, other members of the team do work hard, try their best and are committed to their work. - It's so satisfying to see a really great work finally get to print and do well
Cons
- The pay is pretty standard for an entry-level role , which isn't very high at all - Related to the previous point here doesn't really seem to be any upward mobility. There's no real opportunity to get promoted/a pay rise/gain qualifications within the company, and as such there's no real staying power. - When I first started I felt like a lot of things weren't honestly and clearly explained to me i.e. the actual process of publication after the submissions stage. This led to me feeling very nervous and uncomfortable my first few weeks. - Sometimes really feel like I have to hassle and pester to get certain HR things done. - As with any customer-facing role, customers/authors can be very tiresome to deal with. So many authors have very unrealistic expectations, especially when some of them can barely string a sentence together. - The databases are poor - To this day I don't understand the whole lunch-break scenario (we do get paid for the full 8 hour day so no one really takes one?)
Show Less
Advice to Management
I think the company is definitely taking steps in the right direction, but certain areas need to be improved/updated more quickly (the databases!) Communication needs to be improved in some areas: meetings are scheduled but don't happen, sometimes have to hear information secondhand and then chase it up etc
Current Employee - Anonymous Employee
Recommends
Positive Outlook
I have been working at Pegasus Elliot Mackenzie Publishers full-time
Pros
Easy-going management No one is condescending or patronizing when you need to ask a question about something you're not sure on. Staff relationship is really good - laid-back and easy to get on with. Guidance given any time you need it. Staff are allowed to take cigarette/toilet breaks whenever they want to and this doesn't come out of their lunch break. Decent wage with the opportunity to improve over time - holiday bonus also provided. Management are understanding if you need a day off for illness. Relaxed atmosphere: management hold holiday parties twice a year for all staff, pizza is brought in for lunch now and then, snacks are provided often and tea and coffee is always there to help yourself. You feel supported when you ask for help.
Show Less
Cons
Occasionally stressful, as is any work place. You can feel a bit rushed for time when you have a lot to do and departments could do with expanding a bit (not always enough staff).
Advice to Management
Consider employing more staff to ease the workload in departments.
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Again, whom you support is all upon you. I am deducing the things as per my understanding. Like she has said that new authors have unrealistic expectations. They would have expectations of you using their money wisely and reporting. Many have said that nothing has been reported like, 'Where was the news releases and where are the marketing strategies and so on. As I got a similar answer from them even before I enter the contract so, I can understand what would be the situation after they get the money.
To be sure that I am fair to the Publisher as well, I thought of contacting someone who was in this type of contract, and here is my mail conversation with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author who has actually published with Peagasus
jrmckay@sky.com
Hi,
I saw your comment on the Pegasus publication from 2016 and was curious if it is even worth it.
I got a contract from them for 2400 GBP and are giving 25 percent on print and 50 percent on the e-book.
I am totally confused, but I want to know about your experience with them.
Did they provide editorial services, and what about marketing and new release?
Thanks
Vinay kallat
He replied,
Hi Vinay
My initial dealings with Pegasus were largely positive, and this was when I posted on the forum. They produced a very good, well-edited book and a very good promotional video. However, the price they set and the lack of promotional activity after publication led to very poor sales and I was never able to recoup my outlay.
Pegasus are really a vanity publisher and do very little, if anything, to promote your work after release.
If you have the time, resources, and aptitude for marketing your book, then this may be different for you.
I complained to them recently about the lack of post-production support and they have now done an audiobook
version of my novel The Absolution Of Otto Finkel, which was at no cost to me.
So therefore, my dealings with Pegasus have been somewhat mixed. All my other books I have self-published through Amazon's KDP/Createspace platforms and I have sold many more doing it this way, as I was able to set the price, etc. myself.
Good luck with your writing, and if you have any more questions, then please feel free to contact me again.
Kind regards
John
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you still are in doubt and I can understand why. Because anyone who puts so many efforts into their writing would hold on to anything that comes their way.
If you persist to go then here are some pointers you can ask:
1) Publishing e-books is very easy through Amazon. Don't include that format in their contract. They are flexible in not including it. At least in my case, it was an option.
2) Increase the percentage even if this is your first book. I was successful in increasing the profits to 60 percent from 50 percent, e.g.(Television reading rights) and all other Subsidiary rights. I feel I could have gone till 65/70 percent if I would have persuaded.
3) Try to fit their contribution in the contract to safeguard yourself. (I am pretty sure they would not accept this but still what's wrong in trying) If they say no and you still want to go with it, you can.
I hope this gives you an in-depth picture of what's happening in there. The only reason I wrote this long blog was that I got a mail again today:
Dear Vinay,
Re Finding An Indian Bride
We would just like to make you aware that the date on your contract is about to expire.
If you need further time, then I would be happy to discuss the matter with you. Please either email, telephone
01223 370012, or I would be happy to meet with you at our production offices.
Kind regards,
Suzanne Mulvey
Commissioning Editor
To be honest, when I see such emails, I do get lured into saying yes. Let's try what happens, but we need to learn from others' mistakes. I would let it go even though I want to believe in them badly.
Please provide me your feedback or any questions you might feel like. I would try my best to answer them.